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Aircooled RD Tech Help 250cc and Above
 Aircooled RD Tech Forum : Tech Zone : Aircooled RD Tech Help 250cc and Above
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Yam3&arthur
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Quote Yam3&arthur Replybullet Topic: Fouled Plugs
    Posted: 20/Feb/2010 at 7:33am
What actually causes this? I have read its when you are running too much oil or even too rich a fuel mix. But what actually happens to the plug? Does the petrol soak into the ceramic and dissolve it?

I suffered my first "foul" last night, and as Hull City are playing West Ham today I half expected to see Scott Parker fouling everything in sight including Jimmy Bullard and my plugs!!

Back to my question, what actually happens to the plug, can it be treated/cleaned and reused? or is it junk?
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mart13
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Quote mart13 Replybullet Posted: 20/Feb/2010 at 10:30pm
I blast mine and reuse them.
spark plug cleaner
Mart



Mart
click edit to see how it is done
Merv
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Yam3&arthur
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Quote Yam3&arthur Replybullet Posted: 20/Feb/2010 at 11:02pm
link doesnt work for me

edit does now

so they can be resurrected?
any other way apart from blasting?
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mervin
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Quote mervin Replybullet Posted: 20/Feb/2010 at 11:10pm
yup wire brush, clap em in a vice and scrub the crap off of em with a softish wire brush
Merv

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DeeTee
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Quote DeeTee Replybullet Posted: 20/Feb/2010 at 11:14pm
Paul Scholes fouls the best
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mart13
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Quote mart13 Replybullet Posted: 20/Feb/2010 at 11:39pm
Thanks for the working link.
Plugs I can do......
Links.......Well
Mart
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smokinsimmo
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Quote smokinsimmo Replybullet Posted: 21/Feb/2010 at 12:04am
Old four star petrol used to foul my plugs up to 1984, but this was cured by my Dad buying a car I could not syphon petrol from.   
Paid up Rd club member #598. Bring back the 'Alma Boobies' for RD2011
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HINGED_BAP
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Quote HINGED_BAP Replybullet Posted: 21/Feb/2010 at 8:53am
i run premix at circa 25:1 and with ordinary plugs had the occasional one foul up. I then changed to these and haven't had one foul yet:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/L4G-plugs-for-Kawasaki-H2-KH500-Suzuki-Yamaha-YDS7-RF5_W0QQitemZ280465279971QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20100217?IMSfp=TL100217207001r31936
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Location: Eastleigh (5 miles from Southampton)
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Yam3&arthur
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Quote Yam3&arthur Replybullet Posted: 21/Feb/2010 at 9:12am
yeah i'm a big believer in fine tipped plugs.
i use denso iridium in my zx6r and my car and i have some on the shelf waiting to be put in my yam but im waiting until i have the carbs set up right first.
Denso...IWF24 £15 quid a pair!!!
i was just wondering if i should throw the fouled plug away or can it be fixed.
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Derbi 49cc
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Quote Derbi 49cc Replybullet Posted: 21/Feb/2010 at 1:24pm
“Fouled: This occurs when a build up of deposits is great enough to provide a path for the spark to run along the insulator surface all the way to the metal shell without creating ignition.” Yamaha Service Manual

       
Don
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Quote Colin987 Replybullet Posted: 21/Feb/2010 at 6:11pm
This is what my plugs looked like when my pilot jets were far too big (#40 instead of #25). The bike would run a few miles before dying - no spark.



As Derbi's mentioned, this fuel/oil coating around the ceramic insulator forms a conductive path between the centre electrode and ground - no spark.
If you can clean this mess off (maybe use a paintbrush with clean fuel to get in the well, and a blast of compressed air) the plugs should be re-usable.

Don't know what state your jettings at, now - I've read you've been playing around with it for some time, now; maybe it's too rich at low RPM - or maybe it's just one of those things.

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Yam3&arthur
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Quote Yam3&arthur Replybullet Posted: 21/Feb/2010 at 6:39pm
i am a tad too rich 1/4 to half throttle but when my carbs are out of balance it runs rough as fook especially when cruising at 40. hence the fouling.
carbs go out of balance every time i touch my carbs cos the throttle cable is knackered. sometimes by as much as 10mm!!
i ordered a new one but got a flat top carb cable ie carb cables far too short.
i wont junk the plug then maybe try carb cleaner and set it on fire. and the rest of the bike is gonna get that treatment if it deosnt start behaving.

thing is i'm only doing short runs and the engine barely gets up to running temp. when it does warm up the richness isnt as obvious. its a bit too cold for me to be trying to get things spot on. i'm also waiting for some bigger mains to be delivered.
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Dave Freist
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Quote Dave Freist Replybullet Posted: 21/Feb/2010 at 9:17pm
Too much fuel is usually the culprit to fouled plugs. As mentioned, pilot jets that are too large are often the cause. I always try to run the smallest pilot jets I can get away with, stock or 1 size larger and no more than that. The pilot jet mixture is adjusted with the air screws. With the big K&N on the stock 350 y-boot I run the stock #25 pilot jets with the air screws set at 3/4 to 1-1/4 quarter turns out, whatever is best running. The air screws are particulary touchy, only an 1/8 turn can have a large effect. When I was running the stock Mikuni VM28 carbs I used the stock #25 pilots and the screws set at 7/8 turns out. Anything less or more it just didn't have that RIP, RIP RIP sound and the throttle didn't have the instant response it had at 7/8 turns out. It takes a little experimentation to find the correct setting but its worth the time and effort. The Mikuni TM32 carbs I run now have 27.5 pilots with the air screws set at 1 turn out. No fouled plugs...
Confidence is the feeling you have before you understand the problem....
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Yam3&arthur
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Quote Yam3&arthur Replybullet Posted: 21/Feb/2010 at 9:47pm
i have the standard pilots and i have noticed i can make quite a bit of difference to how it runs by adjusting the air screws. i tried to screw them in a bit last time and it ran a bit rich hence the fouled plugs.
i am still trying to get the mains sorted. i have found a supply of nylon mikuni jets here
:RTQ:MOTORS:1123">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180247630968&ssPageName=ADME:RTQ:MOTORS:1123
even with the $3.50 shipping for twelve jets they are cheaper than buying in uk. i vaguely remember trying them in the seventies and can recall the threads are very easily stripped by the ham fisted.
are they any good?
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Dave Freist
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Quote Dave Freist Replybullet Posted: 21/Feb/2010 at 10:11pm
Nope. For one thing they may not fit; for another, the orifice size on those nylon jets vary to a large degree. As you stated, the threads can be easily stripped out. I'd never use 'em. Brass purchased from Yamaha dealers is expensive. Economy Cycle or HVCcyle over here can get 'em to you much cheaper than a dealer.
Confidence is the feeling you have before you understand the problem....
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Yam3&arthur
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Quote Yam3&arthur Replybullet Posted: 22/Feb/2010 at 11:30am
i am paying £2.50 each from yambits in uk for brass, but he only goes up to size 260. £3 each from another supplier plus £7 pounds postage.
i should just try a pair of 280s and then if thats weak then i know not to buy the 250 260 and 270's. who knows i might have to go up to 300!! or even higher!
it seems to me that up to just under half throttle is slightly rich with the 1mm of washers under my bottom notch clipped needle but from half to full throttle is still definitely weak. once ive got the full throttle mixture sorted out then the .4 to .75 thottle might be harder to sort out cos the needle and needle jet are giving me rich and weak mixes. different taper?
dave, would the 2mm air jet mod make things even more complicated?
if not should i do that first?

just to sort my head out, in a couple of hours i am gonna take my main jets out completely. purely to witness my bike running rich at full throttle. cos at the moment i cannot imagine that.
and also i will see at what throttle opening the needle and needle jet hand over to the main jet.
if it runs crap from 1/3rd throttle upwards i know the main jet is influencing the needle jets operation and so need to sort that first. you or others might have done this but you cant beat first hand experience.
i'm off work due to the weather today and its either that or i have rumpty pumpty with my aging wife.
she doesnt rev much nowadays....
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GAZZATT2
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Quote GAZZATT2 Replybullet Posted: 22/Feb/2010 at 11:32am
have you tried motocarb for jets ?
R1 350lc 400F 250/400f project
IT LOOKS GOOD IN A PHOTO LANCE
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Yam3&arthur
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Quote Yam3&arthur Replybullet Posted: 22/Feb/2010 at 11:44am
Originally posted by GAZZATT2

have you tried motocarb for jets ?


maybe, will do now cheers gazzatt2.
2.50 each from yambits was good. i email dave @yambits or use the on site messaging and he has never replied.
if someone had a phone number i could try ringing him to see if he has bigger.
a lad on ebay from barnsley sells 10 jets for 21.80 posted. in smaller sizes. ive asked him if he will do 260-300 for the same money.

edit
the link was already purple on my google. he is only a quid a pair dearer than yambits but i think his postage is very dear.
got quoted 3.5 dollars shipping from usa and i think motocarb wanted 8 quid and yet motocarb is only down the road.
thats a dave freist road btw.

2nd edit gazzatt2 do motocarb offer aircooled rd members discount?
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Yam3&arthur
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Quote Yam3&arthur Replybullet Posted: 22/Feb/2010 at 11:50am
gazzatt2 please read my edits above.
cheers

got mixed up his postage was cheap. think it was allens performance.

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GAZZATT2
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Quote GAZZATT2 Replybullet Posted: 22/Feb/2010 at 11:56am
YAMBITS
David Newboult
Unit 9 Poplars Industrial Etate
Boroughbridge
YO51 9HS York, North Yorkshire
United Kingdom Phone: 01423 324394
Fax: 01423 325436
Email: mail@yambits.co.uk


I had some jets of moto carb recently did not charge me £8 postage only about £3 Steve there knows his stuff

no discount that I am aware off
R1 350lc 400F 250/400f project
IT LOOKS GOOD IN A PHOTO LANCE
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